When we die, where do we go and when do we go there?

www.FreeCDTracts.com
Mickey Robinson



Jews of Jesus' time argued about the whether or not of a resurrection.

Act 23:8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit; but the Pharisees confess both.

Greeks in Athens mocked the idea of a resurrection.

Act 17:32 And hearing of a resurrection of the dead, some indeed mocked; and others said, We will hear you again concerning this.

Paul believed in a resurrection but when does he see it happening? Is it when Jesus returns?

1Th 4:15 For we say this to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord shall not go before those who are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ shall rise first.

1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all will be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first-fruit, and afterward they who are Christ's at His coming;

Or does it happen right after we die?

2Co 5:8 then we are confident and we are pleased rather to go away from home out of the body, and to come home to the Lord.

Php 1:23 For I am pressed together by the two: having a desire to depart and to be with Christ, which is far better.
Php 1:24 But to remain in the flesh is more needful for you.

This seems to be an old and ancient discussion. Calvin saw it this way:

"Moreover, to pry curiously into their intermediate state is neither lawful nor expedient. Many greatly torment themselves with discussing what place they occupy, and whether or not they already enjoy celestial glory. It is foolish and rash to inquire into hidden things, farther than God permits us to know. Scripture, after telling that Christ is present with them, and receives them into paradise (John 12:32), and that they are comforted, while the souls of the reprobate suffer the torments which they have merited goes no farther. What teacher or doctor will reveal to us what God has concealed?"

Maybe Calvin is right and we will never know the when of it but only the where (as in with the Lord somehow). And we should not take the visions and experiences of men as evidence. We do take the visions and experiences of men in the Bible as evidence don't we, but how much credence should we give post Biblical information?

What ever the answer, experiences such as those of Mickey Robinson and many like him have a convincing similarity and Scriptural flavor.

The Fear of God

I felt "led" to write something that was bothering me about the fear of God or rather the lack of fear I saw in myself and others. Many like myself, who accepted Christ through a revelation of God's goodness and love, have a harder time realizing the fearsomeness of God. Then that view is reinforced by much mainstream Bible teaching. It is to our detriment. I ran across such a complete discussion of the fear of God on the Acts 17:11 website, I found it unnecessary to say more. Here is the link.

"Why is it we will not accept the fear of God? Why do we try to "explain away" the fear of God in Scripture?" acts17-11.com

The Search for the Real Mt. Sinai

Bob Cornuke
Jabal al Laws Google Map
Chuck Missler article
Jim and Penny Caldwell first to find split rock
The Search for the Real Mt. Sinai - Part 1 of 5


Part 2 of 5


Part 3 of 5


Part 4 of 5


Part 5 of 5

The Coming Super Church

Utopian dreams never materialize, if history is any indicator. Regardless the well intentioned efforts of the founders, given sufficient time, the darker elements of human nature will sabotage even the noblest endeavor. Is this a biblical theme? Is there a better example than Genesis and Eden, a true utopia yet ruined by man’s nature? A quick look back at utopian history soon reminds us of the flaws and failures.

Some Christians look longingly to the church of Acts where they helped each other, held things in common and so forth, as a Utopian period of Christianity but alas short lived. And then there is that alarming Ananias and Sapphira episode. Utopias just don’t make it.

How is a Christian supposed to think then? Jesus, a good Jewish boy, believed and taught as other Jews, that there was a time coming when Messiah would rule and rain for a millennium. But even at the end of this, many would rebel and need destruction. Finally, when the powers of evil and all who follow them are dealt with, only then can “utopia” exist. Even then, the participants have been transformed with new bodies and who knows what else.

A current Christian message from some is the coming super Christian. An end time Christian who knows more, does more, controls more … more of everything. Utopia is starting early for these people and thus ushering in the coming Messiah’s reign.

I honestly do not see this supported in scripture. I am open to the idea, but I just don’t see this coming increasing greatness of the church. For one I think it demeans and underestimates the greatness of the current body of Christ. Many interpret the seven churches in revelation as being historic but also a picture of the end time church. Among that church profile we see a self absorbed and powerless portion but we see a faithful portion as well, able to endure suffering and trusting Christ in and for all things. So if this is what they mean, I agree but they seem to go beyond this view and envision a super church who takes over the world and then Jesus will come.

Many use the “without spot or wrinkle” principle to argue that Jesus will not come back yet because of how spotted and wrinkled the bride now is. We must become “perfected” before he will return. Wow, and we accuse the Catholics of works. (It is when the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled that triggers the return, not the condition of the church.)

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it,
Eph 5:26 that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the Word,
Eph 5:27 that He might present it to Himself as the glorious church, without spot or wrinkle or any such things, but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Eph 5:28 So men ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.

Notice that it was Christ’s giving of Himself that sanctified and cleansed the church and made it a glorious church, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing. It is about Christ, not us. It is Christ that makes us holy.

I do not want to call spotted that which Christ has made without blemish through His sacrifice.

Can you imagine the glee in Christ’s enemies as John sat imprisoned on Patmos, looking helpless and defeated (and spotted and blemished by weakness) … transcribing the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

I just noticed this tare vs. wheat statement in some super church article, “Even so, we are going to see the power and glory of the wheat greatly overwhelming the tares.”

What scripture reference supports this?

Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest. And in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, First gather together the darnel and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my granary.

The tares and wheat grow up together and are separated by God who knows the heart of man.

Sorry, I may be misunderstanding these people and I don’t want to be criticizing them unfairly. They are Christians and brothers in Christ and accomplishing more than I, no doubt. Some are more extreme in their views than others and the more extreme, the more unscriptural those views appear to me.

If the message is Christians will take over one or any earthly government then I don't buy it. If the message is that revivals will come and renew the church (adding to that faithful part), deeper revelations will be given that clarify prophecy, then I agree that may be possible and seems to be happening. Miracles may and will come as a natural outcropping of closer walks with God and revival (God's sovereign move). All this is possible but not clearly covered Biblically with the exception of Joel's latter rain scriptures which Peter clearly placed at Pentecost as a starting point. Can the intensity of this Latter Rain increase, probably.

We are guaranteed something though ... BigHuge apostasy. We are well served to give diligence to the sound and fundamental teachings of Christ and the entire Bible. Chances are good that each of us believes something that is not accurate. Let us throw all we believe into the furnace of God's Word as illuminated by the Holy Spirit and see what gold remains. Not to prove our doctrines and positions but to distill the truth and refine the gold. If we ask God to clarify He will do it.

An evil generation seeks a sign because THE sign has been given ... Yeshua Hamashiach. He has called out a people beginning with Abraham and continuing with us. Then He perfected them through His own perfect sacrifice. We overcome through the blood of the Lamb, and the word of our testimony. And as a friend reminded me, "loving not our lives unto death." So much for cheap grace.

And this is a BigHugeThing!

Here is a possible history on the Dominionism/Latter Rain movement. Not sure how accurate this is but room for thought. I dislike most heresy hunters but we do want to avoid the coming apostasy, what ever that may be. I love a good miracle as much as anyone and love being in the presence of God's manifest Glory. None of us have perfect doctrine so maybe we should just appreciate God moving among whoever He chooses and stop complaining.
Equal Time to Latter Rain

Here are videos of all this "heresy" in action. One must ask, if Satan is confirming the gospel of Christ with signs following ... what sense does that make?

Digging for the Truth ... Ark of the Covenant

Bob Cornuke and baseinstitute.org

Catholics and Exorcisim

Art Bell Interviews Dr. Malachi Martin (Part 1)


Art Bell Interviews Dr. Malachi Martin (Part 2)

Dominionism vs Kingdom of God?

I was cured of Dominionism/Kingdom Age thinking (without knowing it) early in my active Christian life . Soon after my becoming spiritually alive Jimmy Carter came on the scene claiming to be born again and running for president of the USA. This would have been irresistible for me at the ballot box but strangely enough I became distracted on election eve and missed voting in that election. I missed voting for Jimmy Carter and often thank God for it.

Being a "Christian" does not make you a good leader. If there is a better example than Jimmy Carter, I don't know it. And so we don't forget this fact, Mr. Carter keeps reminding us in regular fashion.

I didn't know our early Christian efforts were Dominionism and surely at the time most Christians would not have put a label on it. We just wanted to use our civic duty to select good leaders. I just thought it was a good idea to prefer Christians in leadership. I still believe this. But being Christian is not a litmus test for me. Issue positions are most important in my political choice today, after the Jimmy Carter lesson.

Maybe George Bush is our second lesson.

Some say Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell were/are Dominionists. They believe the will of God is to have Christians in power and leadership and establish God's kingdom on the earth. I understood they simply felt as we all did, that Christian's should make good informed voting decisions. They encouraged Christians to become involved in politics and influence government for good and not evil.

I am capable of being door knob dense and I could have missed the true agenda. Pat Robertson's inner circle did not include me so Dominionism could have been the plan without my knowledge. And I will admit that we grass roots Christians had more than one encouraging conversation about Christians in political power. I did not however consider this as having anything to do with end time events or redeeming the earth. Maybe some people did.

Whatever I thought back then, I am further away from believing in Christian political effectiveness than ever. Not only did we send born again Jimmy Carter to Washington to destroy the government, we regularly send others who have little effect. But I will continue to prefer Christians if their values and positions are discernible. But I am not under any delusion that these efforts are part of the Kingdom Of God. The Kingdom of God is not meat nor drink but righteous, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. The Kingdom of God is not a political kingdom. It is not the United States of America, no matter how many good things the US has done or how ever many Christian founders the good old USA had.

Did Jesus say His kingdom is not of this world? Where did he say, "but my followers will change this"?

Here is a very good audio file on this subject. I believe this warning is important.

pidradio070708.mp3 Tom Horn interview.

BigHugeThing

What does it mean to "know the Lord"?

The Bible contains some alarming material. Sometimes I recoil at revealed truth that stands so far beyond my comfort zones, truth difficult to discuss in polite company. One of these truths is the intimate relationship God desires to have with us and promises to us. God's words to His prophets on this subject are too strong to be comfortable.

I was reading Hosea again, the picture of God's faithfulness to us is beautiful. And yes His anger at our unfaithfulness is sobering. How thankful we should be to have one mediator between God and man, Christ Jesus. But I ran across a little article by John Piper on Hosea and in it he discusses God's desire and promise for intimacy with us. Here is the link to the entire article.

Consider these:
Hos 2:19 And I will betroth you to Me forever. Yea, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in loving-kindness, and in mercies.
Hos 2:20 I will even betroth you to Me in faithfulness. And you shall know Jehovah.

This is what Piper says:

But the most daring statement of all is the last one in verse 20: "And you shall know the Lord." To see what this means recall the peculiar use of the word "know" in the Bible. For example, Genesis 4:1, "Adam knew Eve his wife and she conceived and bore Cain." And Matthew 1:25, "Joseph knew her [Mary] not until she had borne a son." In the context of a broken marriage being renewed with the fresh vows of betrothal must not the words, "and you shall know the Lord," (v. 20) mean, you shall enjoy an intimacy like that of the purest sexual intercourse. When the wife of harlotry returns to her husband, he will withhold nothing. He will not keep her at a distance. The fellowship and communion and profoundest union he will give to his prodigal wife when she comes home broken and empty.

Lest we throw this out as heresy, consider the Song of Solomon. Why is that included in scripture. And what about all of the wedding and marriage metaphor concerning Jesus and the church (and it's individual members) ... the bride of Christ?

I happen to think that we can not understand what this all means except by metaphor and this intimacy is best described through these aspects of our human experience. So for our comfort and probably for the sake of accuracy, we must say "It is like that." But we should not recoil from the idea or we will miss the power of it, God does not flinch.

God is always shocking to humans, why would we expect anything less, considering the vast differences between us. But the closer we are to God the less we are alarmed by His truth. When we have the mind of Christ, we are comfortable thinking as Christ thinks.

BigHugeThing

Transhumanists? Is this part of THE LIE?

You can buy the books.

Why will "even the elect" be susceptible to believing "THE lie." What is this lie going to be? We are told by some that Christians will be taken up and gone so don't worry about it. Others say we need to be ready because we are going to be taken away later and need to be grounded enough to not be deceived. But grounded in what if even the elect can be deceived? Most Christians, if they give any thought to it at all, are expecting a very bad guy who tries branding us with 666. And we have decided we know what that will look like. If it comes in any other form most Christians won't have a clue. Remember that "as in the days of Noah" and it seems no one saw any problem with what was happening, which leads one to wonder ... what the heck was happening.

The Book of Jasher is a non-canonical book that is mentioned in Joshua 10:13 and 2 Samuel 1:18. There is an interesting verse in Jasher:

Jasher 4:18 And their judges and rulers went to the daughters of men and took their wives by force from their husbands according to their choice, and the sons of men in those days took from the cattle of the earth, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and taught the mixture of animals of one species with the other, in order therewith to provoke the Lord; and God saw the whole earth and it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted its ways upon earth, all men and all animals. http://www.ccel.org/a/anonymous/jasher/4.htm

The original lie to Eve will probably be the final lie. In whatever form it comes, it will probably include the same three items:

1. You can be like God.
2. You can achieve eternal life.
3. You will gain wisdom equal with God.

I vote for leaving early but that is not up to me. Should we then live as we want and apart from Christ until we see a UFO land on the White House lawn or genetic options offered? This could all be delusional so it is still advisable to live ready with your life hidden in Christ with God. Then we are truly ready. The Gospel has not changed.

Two Interviews:
• Dr. Stan Monteith Talks With Tom Horn About Genetic Modification - Show #1

• Dr. Stan Monteith Talks With Tom Horn About Genetic Modification - Show #2

Another on YouTube (parts 1 & 2)




A BigHugeThing if true.

The Nephilim and the Pyramid of the Apocalypse

No BigHugeThing but just fits my theme lately and it's kind of cool.

The Prince of Persia

Here is an odd and timely thought. In Daniel 9 the Jewish nation was being held captive in Babylon (Iraq) and Daniel was praying and seeking the Lord on when and how they would be delivered (exit strategy).

Dan 9:1 In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, by descent a Mede, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans--
Dan 9:2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the LORD to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.
Dan 9:3 Then I turned my face to the Lord God, seeking him by prayer and pleas for mercy with fasting and sackcloth and ashes.

Why were the Jews (God’s people) taken to Iraq?

Dan 9:5 we have sinned and done wrong and acted wickedly and rebelled, turning aside from your commandments and rules.
Dan 9:6 We have not listened to your servants the prophets, who spoke in your name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. (read on … very interesting)

Daniel was becoming vexed (freaked out lol) that despite his appeals nothing was happening.

Dan 10:2 In those days I, Daniel, was mourning for three weeks.
Dan 10:3 I ate no delicacies, no meat or wine entered my mouth, nor did I anoint myself at all, for the full three weeks.
Dan 10:4 On the twenty-fourth day of the first month, as I was standing on the bank of the great river (that is, the Tigris)

A very scary guy showed up with a message.

Dan 10:5 I lifted up my eyes and looked, and behold, a man clothed in linen, with a belt of fine gold from Uphaz around his waist.
Dan 10:6 His body was like beryl, his face like the appearance of lightning, his eyes like flaming torches, his arms and legs like the gleam of burnished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a multitude.
Dan 10:7 And I, Daniel, alone saw the vision, for the men who were with me did not see the vision, but a great trembling fell upon them, and they fled to hide themselves.
Dan 10:8 So I was left alone and saw this great vision, and no strength was left in me. My radiant appearance was fearfully changed, and I retained no strength.
Dan 10:9 Then I heard the sound of his words, and as I heard the sound of his words, I fell on my face in deep sleep with my face to the ground.
Dan 10:10 And behold, a hand touched me and set me trembling on my hands and knees.
Dan 10:11 And he said to me, "O Daniel, man greatly loved, understand the words that I speak to you, and stand upright, for now I have been sent to you." And when he had spoken this word to me, I stood up trembling.

He (Gabriel) explained to Daniel why the delay in response to Daniel’s pleadings.

Dan 10:12 Then he said to me, "Fear not, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand and humbled yourself before your God, your words have been heard, and I have come because of your words.
Dan 10:13 The prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days, but Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I was left there with the kings of Persia,

The prince of the kingdom of Persia (Iran) is some kind of power over that area of the planet. I imagine he is still there. I wonder if there is some repeating significance to our day.

1. God’s people (used loosely) are being held captive in Babylon (Iraq).
2. We could talk about why the people are there but let’s not go there. Dan 9:5
3. Persia (Iran) is opposing the success. (earthly reflection of powers of the air)
4. Israel is being threatened.
For added interest:
5. Israel was threatened with fire (furnace) if they did not bow down and worship.
6. Ahmadinejad is threatening fire (nukes)

There are some interesting and provocative parallels if nothing else. Realization that the “prince of the kingdom of Persia” would still be up to no good did cast new light on the problems in that area of the world.

I came across this idea listening to an interview with David Flynn.

Maybe it's no BigHugeThing.

Breakfast

I am a breakfast person, which is problematic, because I am not a morning person. Continual conflicts arise when I order breakfast too late in restaurants and get turned away because they are no longer serving breakfast. Life is hard enough, I think, without getting turned down at restaurants. This could be the ultimate rejection. Complicating this whole breakfast thing is finding a good breakfast because I have to eat at greasy spoons. No one makes a good breakfast like a good greasy spoon and no one makes a bad breakfast like a bad greasy spoon.

I was out and about this morning before the breakfast lock out so today I decided to try the Downtown Diner. What a breath of fresh air, if that term can be used in greasy spoon environments. I swaggered in and confidently assembled the public and spotted news sections from around the diner. I ordered eggs over easy, sausage links, whole wheat toast, and coffee. The middle aged waitress talked me into hash browns and suggested I try onions on top. Feeling devilish and confident being out so early I bit on the onions, too.

Now this was a great breakfast, wonderfully flavorful, hash browns were perfectly golden brown and tender inside, three big fat sausage link, eggs perfect. Even better was the local color. The cook was a short stocky elderly woman with a good appetite. She wore a light pink and white top that could have doubled for pajamas later on, purple sweat pants, black tennis shoes, topped off with a green and brown camouflage baseball cap. You could watch her through the pass through window and her lack of dentures were not always noticeable. But every now and then the unusually short distance between her chin and nose gave it away. Now and then she made waddling forays from the kitchen and would shoot colorful verbal barbs at the customers or sometimes at no one in specific. The phrasing would have been lippy or smart mouthed in a younger person but was charming and welcoming and natural coming from its source.

Throwing caution to the wind I asked the waitress if they cut their breakfast service off at any specific time of day. She said, “Oh no honey, we serve breakfast all day long.” Life could not have been more perfect. I found my greasy spoon to serve me a great tasting breakfast any time I darn pleased and free entertainment to boot. Being called honey didn’t hurt either.

Illegal Aliens

I have been thinking lately about illegals and our attitude as Christians toward them. I mean they are here illegally and we as Christians certainly can't go along with anything illegal ... it just isn't right. Sure they are consuming resources, costing us money, and causing trouble but that is not the real problem for us benevolent Christians. They are here illegally and we just can't turn a blind eye to such glaring illegality.

I was reading in Malachi today and ran across the following:

Mal 3:5 And I will come near you to judgment. And I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those who extort from the hired laborer's wages, and turning away the widow, and the orphan, the alien, and not fearing Me, says Jehovah of Hosts.

God seems to have a thing about how His people treat (and I assume feel and talk about) aliens. But this was written a long time ago and the Holy Spirit couldn't have known the struggle (not to mention high cost) a nice upstanding country like the USA would be having with illegal aliens. I mean all that stuff about turning the other cheek and such would certainly have been written differently if the Holy Spirit could have foreseen that people would have been entering the USA illegally. Feeding homeless and orphans and widows would certainly have been modified to "if they are in the country legally" if the Holy Spirit had been able to foresee the situation. I'm sure that is what He meant to say ... He just didn't have our troublesome situation in mind when He was doling out all those benevolent instruction. As a Christian country, one founded on His name and principals, we definitely need to draw a line in the sand on this illegal alien issue ... it's a matter of principal.


I'm feeling much better about our attitude now. I wonder in how many other areas of scriptural instruction the Holy Spirit lacked foresight into our modern day situation. I'm thinking plenty. I'll be busy for awhile adjusting my Bible to fit our more timely issues that God would not and could not have expected to happen.

Busy Bee/BigHugeThing,